There’s been a lot of controversy over the sacredness of Coldwater, the 4 Oak trees, and the adjacent hill. Here’s the documented history of this part of the site;
December 14, 1866 GH Pond who was a missionary, wrote an article outlining some Dakota traditional beliefs. In this article, he mentions a Dakota God in particular;
“In their external form, the Onktehi are said to resemble the ox, only that they are of immense proportions. This god has power to extend his horns and tail so as to reach the skies. These are the organs of his power. The dwelling place of the male is in the water, and the spirit of the female animates the earth. Hence, when the Dakota seems to be praying, chanting or offering sacrifices to the water or to the earth, it is to this family of the gods that the worship is rendered. They address the male as grandfather, and the female as grandmother. Hence, also, it is probably, that the bubling springs of water are called the " breathing places of the wakan."
“A little to the left of the road leading from Fort Snelling to Minnehaha, in sight of the fort, is a hill which is used, at present, as a burial place. This hill is known to the Dakotas as " Taku wakan tipi," the dwelling place of the gods. It is believed that one of this family of divinities dwells there.”
This hill (with a somewhat commanding view) is near 59th street and 46th ave. in Minneapolis. The small European cemetery that was there, was moved in the 1930’s to other cemeteries. Paul Durrand who wrote an extensive listing of such sites and stories also placed this hill BETWEEN the Veterans Administration (not under it) and the Naval air station. Reference his book- Where the Waters Gather and the Rivers Meet- 1994 pg 86.
He cites Mary Eastman’s 1849 account of the same place;
Unktahe, the god of the waters, is much reverenced by the Dahcotahs.
Morgan's bluff, near Fort Snelling, is called "God's house" by the Dahcotahs; they say it is the residence of Unktahe, and under the hill is a subterranean passage, through which they say the water-god passes
when he enters the St. Peter's [Minnesota River- not Mississippi]. He is said to be as large as a white man's house.
To understand the controversy though, you need to first understand the Highway 55 reroute.
~~1957 Highway 55 planning starts, and it is routed through Minnehaha Park. The Minneapolis park board fights the design, but looses in the Minnesota supreme court on August 1, 1969. Hundreds of houses in Minneapolis were bought and removed from the path of the highway through the city.
Coldwater spring was nearly destroyed as the digging for the highway came within feet of it’s flow. However construction stopped due to budgetary constraints.
the right of the cross shaped
building is a single tree in front of a block shaped building. To the
right of that tree is another two trees, and Coldwater Spring.
The digging to the right is the beginning of the construction of Highway 55 to be another trench freeway like 35W. Just to the right of the picture would be thhe 55/62 interchange. Fortunatly due to budget problems, the digging stopped just short of destroying the underground water flow to the spring. This picture was taken in 1959.
1973 the highway department and Veterans Administration agreed to the highway route along it’s now current path south of 54th street (which is the southern boundary of the city of Minneapolis). The hospital consolidated it’s campus on the west side of the highway. After the VA Hospital was rebuilt, they did not want to widen the current road through their campus, as that was partly why they moved everything to where it is in the first place…
However because money was not available to actually build the new highway, in the meantime, new federal laws were put in place to protect park land from highway construction in general. In 1985 an environmental impact statement was complete for the city of Minneapolis section of the road. The tunnel and land bridge at Hwy 55 and the Minneapolis Parkway was decided upon to protect Minnehaha park. The agreement was made that the “new” parkland on top of the tunnel would offset the lost park land along the road.
Because money to actually build the road was not available until 1996, from the 1970’s to 1996 the cleared land for the road, lying adjacent to parkland, was quite commonly used as parkland. So when the plans were presented to finally build the road, many people saw the loss of the “park” to the highway. This land once had many houses on it, and consequently many mature (formerly backyard) oak trees. It became something to protect from the road
This is the reason behind the start of whole thing. This is the cleared area that grew for 30 years next to the park and slated for the highway.
We would take them down through the oak trees, the woods that would be cut down if the highway goes through, and all the prairie grasses, and we knew that there was something special about those trees, because when you'd go into them you just didn't want to leave- Carol Kratz
The lawsuit was lost in the courts through in 1998, as the statute of limitations ran out long before…
Big Woods Earth First! A radical environmental group was watching
the proceedings. In the words
of Bob Greenberg – ref: book Listen by Elli King- 2006;
“I had been a professional organizer for a decade and had grown
weary of the ineffectiveness of playing by the rules, so I was involved with
Big Woods Earth First! at the time. Having found out that this reroute plan
had been going on for a long time, and that legal stuff didn't look very
fruitful, I recommended to other folks that we should keep an eye on this.
That was about two years before the encampment began, in mid-1996.
Leona and I went to a Stop the Reroute meeting that was happening
at the Gathering Grounds. There we met Susu and Mary Jo and many
other people, too many to name. Susu was talking about this place being
sacred to Native Americans. That was the first that I had heard about it...
In June of 1998, as all legal means to make the people's
will heard seemed exhausted, I did some investigative journalism and
called the demolition company that had the contract to remove the asbestos
before destruction (public records) of the homes could begin. I inquired as
to their stand on this controversial issue, and what date they were planning
on beginning work. I was told August 10th was the project start date for
asbestos removal in the remaining houses on Riverview Road. I brought
this to the attention of the group and we began to plan accordingly.
We placed an article with the Earth First! Journal "Calling All
Squatters" to bring folks from around the country, since there were so many
houses and we could only physically defend a few with our resources.
We needed help.
One of the biggest concerns that I had personally was the fact that
white activists were out there saying that the land was sacred. I didn't
see any Native Americans at the Gathering Grounds (coffee house) meeting where that
was being said, and I knew from my experience in organizing that white
environmentalists use Native American issues to further their own agenda,
time and time and time again. And oftentimes, even if they think they're
doing something good, they're doing something that's rather destructive.
I did not want anything to do with that.
A respectful approach
So I was out to find out, if this is sacred ground to Native
Americans, who are the people who lived in this area, and is it really
sacred ground to them, and if it is, are they willing to stand up and say
something about it? Because if they are, I will stand with them. And if
it is sacred ground, and they're not going to stand up for it, I'm not going
to talk about it in those terms, I'm only going to talk about it in my terms,
why the place is important to me, and I would call out whites who used
it to further the issue. And if it isn't true, we damn well better clear this
up right now.
I had tried to get Vernon Bellecourt, in the past, to get involved
in some environmental issues that I had been working on. And that was
exactly the approach that I had taken ... trying to get him involved in
some things that I was working on ... not the way to go about these things
(I hadn't learned that lesson yet, being an arrogant, educated, American
male with all the privilege I have)! But he was really the only person
in the American Indian community here that I knew of at the time. So
I called Michael Bellanger from KFAI who does a radio show. He told
me to call Anita from the Circle newspaper, who told me to call Vernon
So I called Vernon, and he told me a story about how people out in
Mound, Minnesota were trying to fight this marina, and there were burial
mounds where the marina was going to be built. They contacted him and
said, "Can you come out here and help us stop this?" He went to a public
hearing, and he was going to speak out on it, but before he had a chance,
the developer who was speaking said, "All of you people are complaining
about the mounds being dug up for this marina, but all your houses were
built on them, and you had no problem when we told you we had to dig
them up then, but now that you want to fight this marina, you're willing
to use that to further your cause ..." and Vernon said that he walked out.
That is indicative of white environmentalist behavior. And he told me to
call him back. That was the end of the conversation! I called him back.
He told me that the person I needed to talk to was Chris Leith.
Chris told me the same story as Vemon had concerning the mounds
in Mound, and said he was running out to a sweat, and to call him back
in a week. I did. For over an hour he told me story after story of similar
occurrences, and then said, "So do you understand why I'm wary about
telling you who you should go and talk to?" I said, "I do understand, and
that's exactly why I'm trying to find out, because there's someone who's
saying that this is sacred ..." He said, "You need to call Linda Brown,
and this is her number."
So I thanked him, hung up and called her immediately. It was
Saturday night, nine or something. I said, "Chris Leith gave me your
number, I would like to talk with you. "Well, why don't you come out
tomorrow morning?" I drove out the following morning. Linda and Bob
Brown welcomed me into their house and Jim Albrecht was there too. I
really got a good feeling from them, that they were fantastic, loving people.
I handed them information about Earth First!, and said, "I want you to
know who I am and who we are. They read over the principles of Big
Woods Earth First!; what we stood for, plus our non-violence code. Then
I told them, "Where the Minnesota and Mississippi rivers come together,
there's a bunch of trees and a spring, some of the trees are ancient trees,
one of the finest examples of pristine oak savannah in North America
..." I told them what the place meant to me and what the argument about
protecting it was.
Then I told them what we were planning to do, which is something
that I felt I needed to do, so that they had a clear understanding of what
they would be getting involved in if they joined us. It was very difficult
and against my security consciousness to reveal the type of details about
lockdowns, barricades, tree sits and other things of this nature, but I felt
that I needed to be honest and prepare them, since what we were doing
was new in the United States in an urban area, and we were taking the
technology of resistance to a higher level. And as BWEF! knew, but most
mainstream Americans don't, is that the state will use torture and every
other means available to them to evict us, so I let them know that.
Then I told them, "There are white people involved in this
campaign, who are saying this is sacred to Native Americans." I explained
to them all my concerns about white environmentalists using Native issues,
and that is why I had come looking for them. If they were concerned,
or if this place really was significant or sacred to them, they could learn
more by contacting Carol Kratz, and I gave them her address on Riverview
Road. That's what it was left at; they said that they were going to the
Sundance, which ended on the 9th, and if they joined us they would be
there on the 10th (of August).
Per Carol Kratz in an interview on Jan 8, 1999 and broadcast on Jan 12 on KVSC 88.1FM ;
So they've been involved since then, and it was Bob Greenberg that approached the Dakota Mdewakanton, and that was only a couple of weeks before August 10th when they stopped the houses from being torn down. So that's how they, they didn't even know about their Native lands here in this area, so Bob explained it all to them, and they came out to my house and I called Mary Jo Iverson, who is another very active person in trying to stop this highway. She knows the history of the area like the back of her hand. She'd been working with David Fudally who is the historian who told us about Camp Coldwater. So the Dakota Mdewakantons came to my house, Mary Jo came over and we took them on a long tour down by the Camp Coldwater Creek and the spring and the whole area, and they were shocked. They were just shocked, and it seemed kind of strange to us too, that they hadn't known about it, but they didn't know. So that's when, on August 10th... I can't remember if they came that day or the following day and put up a tipi in my front yard, and they've been there ever since, also learning about all their Native culture and all the sacred sites. So they've been in a learning process themselves, we all have. So that's how they got involved.
Per Dave Fudally;
I was standing talking with Bob Brown at Carol Kratz's home.
Second time I met Bob Brown.
I showed Bob Brown 1935 MNHS ariel photograph of possible pow wow site. I pointed out area. Jim came walking up and looked...pretty rough shape. I was talking about pow wow site and where I thought possible fire pit was out in field. Mary Jo Iverson took Jim out to field to look at area. She came back about 1/2 hr later. Jim Anderson walked up to Bob Brown and said "Uncle Bob, Uncle Bob, there are sacred trees out there. The indians planted them there." I looked at Mary Jo and said "don't start that shit Mary Jo!" Bob asked Jim "What are you talking about?" Jim replied again, "Uncle Bob, Uncle Bob, the indians planted sacred trees out there, pointing to field then saying, "Four of them " pointing south he said "North' pointing North he said "south , east and west. Sacred trees four directions." I looked at Bob and told him "Mary Jo said she was going to get some indians to say there are sacred trees out there to try and stop the highway from going through." Bob said "well maybe Jim is having a vision, the indian in him is having a vision." I repeated again "Mary Jo made it up to stop the highway from going through." Bob said again, "Dave maybe the indian in him is giving him a vision." I told Bob, "No it's not the indian in him, it's the Swedish in him and he had too many swedish meatballs if you know what I mean." Jim Anderson and Mary Jo Iverson were just standing there. I swore at Mary Jo. Bob mentioned how Jim was having troubles in his life and how this native stuff might do him some good in his life etc. and then I walked away.
The next day after this story hit the press, I wrote a letter to Bob Clouse (Minnesota Historical Society) saying I was not part of this hoax and that I was angry. I wrote how it started in the letter. I also gave Bob a rare Mn geology book that same day for their reference use in Ft Snelling area. I told Bob Brown that there was a law that gives Native Americans first right to abandoned fed property (Since the Bureau of Mines was closing at the Coldwater site) as the AIM group tried a takeover of Mpls navel air base in 1970's. If all else fails to protect spring, try that law. About a few weeks later I overheard members of Bob Browns group say something about getting a casino built at the BOM property if they could get land and fed recognition as a separate band. Bob at that moment repeatedly told me he would not let that happen. He later stated to a reporter it all started for Mendota group when they wanted a casino.
In Jim Anderson’s words Ref Elli King’s book Listen;
The first day we were there was the day after Sundance in '98. I
brought my Chanupa to those trees, and I heard the chanting of our relatives
from way back. I looked around at everyone else, but they didn't hear it.
A couple of days later, Michael and I were on the river bank. We were
looking over the edge, and I had never been there, so when I looked over
it was really high. I said, "Man," and then I heard the chanting again. I
looked over at Michael and he goes, "I heard it!" I just smiled. Then we
heard it again, and we both had goose bumps, just like I'm getting right
now just talking about it.
So then I knew we had to and try to protect that. At that time we
started to get ahold of our elders to try and find out what we were doing
there. Harry Charger came, he's our Sundance Chief. Chris Leith called
him, Chris is the one who told us about it. He heard from Clyde Bellecourt,
who heard from Bob Greenberg, that the place was sacred. The people
who should know about it didn't, because our people were assimilated,
but Chris Leith knew something about it, and told us to go there. We
had to go there to protect it. So we put up our tipis, and we joined Earth
First!, and all of our friends from the neighborhood. It was beautiful, I've
never experienced anything like that, where all these people would come
together ... But in our way, we believe that the four colors of man have
to come together to save the earth, so that was part of the prophecy being
fulfilled, all these people coming together to try and protect the trees and
“I prayed for the power to help the people. An elder heard my prayer and
said, ‘Get up and do what you pray to do.’ We sang in a circle, smoked
the pipe, and prayed to the sacred trees. A couple of days later, a cousin
of mine had a willow staff he prayed with. Every time he touched the
sacred trees with it, he saw a flash of light.
Bob Brown in an interview with Mary Losure in her book My Way or the Highway- 2002;
Bob Brown never tried to hide
the less-than-glorious path
to his new found identity. "There's another part of this," he would
say. "Regrettably, this all started out over money'" But, like Jim
Anderson, he believed people can choose who they want to be:
"We don't have to be Indian people but we are Indian people'"
Still, it was easy for outsiders to be cynical. The Mendota
Dakota had come together in the first place to try for a piece of a
casino, and if they won recognition as a tribe, that might make
them eligible for their own casino. For all anyone knew, that was
all they really cared about. They could call themselves Dakota,
they could take Dakota-language classes from Chris Leith at the
Mendota VFW, they could go to Sundances and sweat lodges, but
always the question of their real motives hung in the air.
That's how things stood in the summer of 1998, when Bob
and Linda Brown got a call from Bob Greenberg, the Earth First!
Bob Brown learned later that before Greenberg called them,
he had gone through a long list of established Native American
leaders, but they had been wary of environmentalists with a
sudden interest in Native sacred sites. Indian people had been
used by environmentalists too many times, they said. Finally,
Greenberg called Chris Leith, and Leith referred him to Bob
and Linda Brown.
On a Sunday morning in July, Greenberg pulled up in front
of the Browns' modest ranch-style duplex in Champlin, a middle-
class suburb north of Minneapolis. At their kitchen table, he
talked to them for three hours, telling them about Carol's house,
the trees, and the spring. Since they were newcomers to Indian
politics, the question of whether they were being used didn't
occur to the Browns. "My first reaction was this was too close
to Mendota, this was indeed part of our ancestral homeland, and
I needed to get down there and see what was going on," Bob
Brown said later.
A couple of days afterward, Bob and Linda Brown, together
with Bob's nephew Michael and sister Bev, stopped by Carol
Kratz's house. "She was beside herself, she was so happy," Linda
Brown said later. Carol's friend Mary Jo Iverson, another local
activist, gave the group a tour of the spring, the river and the
trees. "We knew then that it was something we had to do," Linda
"We came there and very quickly learned what these places
meant in the past and what they should mean to us-a lot that
we didn't know" Bob Brown remembered. Someone pointed out
that the four old oaks had multiple trunks, seven in all, one for
each of the seven rituals of the Sundance.
"Seven sacred rites, seven trunks on those four trees," Bob
said. "It just isn't happenstance. The first time I was told they
were put there for ceremonial reasons, I believed it." Bob thought
there was a reason the highway had been delayed so long and the
trees left standing. "I looked at it as they were self-protecting
through all this time and now it was time for us to protect them.
I've come to believe that all of this was orchestrated .. . this was
meant to happen."
At first, they couldn't understand why Chris Leith had given
their names to Greenberg, but Bob Brown realized there had
been a reason for that, too. "We are the Mendota people. We are
the people that should protect it. I think Chris knew it and that's
why he sent Bob to us."
In the fall of 1998, a Lakota elder Harry Charger, visited
camp from the Cheyenne River Indian Reservation in South
Dakota. He reported seeing in the branches of the four oaks the
spirits of children who had died at Fort Snelling. "Out of respect
for our ancestors, I have to believe those trees were put there
for a reason," Bob said later. "Maybe so we don’t forget what
It was all part of a larger design, Bob believed. "We were
destined to find out these things ourselves as part of the whole
process of learning and being Dakota," he said. That's why they
had been drawn to the protest camp in the first place.
"It really was an amazing change that came over all of us,"
Bob said. 'Jimmy and Michael, they just moved in over there [at
the protest camp]. They barely went home to clean up." Bob never
heard voices himself- "I haven't been blessed with that con-
nection, though I pray for it. I don't see things in the sweat lodge
that other people do" -but the voices that others heard helped
convince him. "I'm not a particularly spiritual man and I don't
pretend to be-but to see the change that's come over Jim, it's
incredible," he said.
And So the Controversy began… is it, or is it not sacred?
This controversy carried on, mostly because the 4 Oaks stood dead center in the planned highway’s path.
After a thorough review by the Minnesota Indian Affairs Council, which is made up of the tribal chairs of the State's eleven federally recognized tribes and is responsible for determining the cultural significance of such sites, it was determined that no substantial evidence exists that the proposed Highway 55 rerouting would directly impact any such site...(T)o attempt to exploit a piece of land for the purpose of simply stopping the rerouting of a highway, is not only wrong, in the long run it hurts our efforts to protect sites that are truly sacred and culturally significant. -Minnesota Indian Affairs Council, letter to the St. Paul Pioneer Press, October 5, 1998.
So some individual Native Elders came to the site and in October 1998 made affidavits in Minnesota District Court disagreeing saying among other things;
Gary Cavendar of the Prior Lake band and Episcipol Priest made this affidavit;
The Camp Coldwater spring is a sacred spring. Its flow should not be stopped or disturbed. If the flow is disturbed, it cannot be restored. Also, if its source is disturbed, that disturbs the whole cycle or the flow. The Spring is the dwelling place of the undergods and is near the center of the Earth. The spring is part of the cycle of life. The underground stream from the spring to the Mississippi River must remain open to allow the Gods to enter the river through the passageway. The spring is the site of our creation myth (or "Garden of Eden") and the beginning of Indian existence on Earth. Our underwater God (Unektehs) lives in the Spring.
Among other reasons, the four oak trees are sacred because of their age.
Chris Leith Sundance Chief of Prairie Island made this Affidavit;
Four very old oak trees planted in a diamond pattern (the four directions)
been identified. These trees mark the graves of Indians and are, therefore, sacred. The
oak trees are simply large plants and, like plants, have medicinal. and spiritual powers.
Because there were Indians who lived historically in this area, there had to be burial
grounds -- all along the Minnesota river. The Indians placed bodily remains on scaffolds
in the crutches of the trees -- I can see in the branches of the four oaks where the bodies
of men, women and babies were. I visited this sacred site and performed a ceremony.
I, and other Indians present, sensed that the spirits of the dead Indians are still there.
I also know this from my dreams and visions, which are an important part of working
with the spirits.
Also similar statements were made by;
Clifford Duran Chippewa and Cree in his Affidavit;
Larry Cloud-Morgan Leech Lake and Red Lake in his Affidavit;
Michael Stephen Haney Chairman of the Repatriation Committee of the United Indian Nations in Oklahoma in his Affidavit;
Minnesota Department of Transportation (MnDOT) commissioned a study,
and took oral testimony to determine the sacredness of the 4 Oak Trees.
They were determined to be too young to be burial platforms, and digs found no bones. The trees were cut down on December 11th, 1999. They were 137 years old- dating to the 1862 war.
During the study over the 4 Oak trees, substantial testimony was also collected about spring use in Dakota Culture.
With the trees cut down and the road to the Hwy 55/62 interchange to now be built, the focus shifted exclusively to Camp Coldwater Spring.
The Preserve Camp Coldwater Coalition was formed exclusively for this task. Their first goal was to get watershed protection for the spring since it was outside the city of Minneapolis boundary and had none. Being successful in this endeavor, and passing two state level laws, MnDOT did eventually study the hydrology of the area and made a few key changes in the road design- raising it above the water table from 54th street to Hwy 62 and putting a liner under the interchange to protect the water flows to the spring.
While this was happening on March 19th 2001 the Iowa tribe of Oklahoma declared Coldwater to be a Sacred Site- the first Federally recognized tribe to do so. This was based on the idea that the Iowa tribe was in the area prior to the Dakota.
Black Tomahawk Dakota Indian historian early 1800's, documents
the Dakota taking the lands of the Iowa Indians in 3 battles along the St Peter (now Minnesota)
River Near Quinn's home (East Bloomington), Grey Iron's planting field (South of St Peter R. present Burnsville/Eagan border) and at
Pilot Knob hill Mendota.
Ref: Mn Historical Collections, Iowa Indians and the Mounds by Gideon Pond . The battles would be about the year 1685.
The first documented Dakota village, "at the mouth of the river St. Pierre, on the bank of which were Mantantans" in 1689 by Nicolas Perrot. Ref: The History of Hennepin Cty 1881 Rev Neil.
This is the basis of the controversy about where the Dakota's came from. If the Iowa were there, then that brings into question the entire testimony of the elders saying Coldwater is the Dakota "Garden of Eden" and validates the federally recognized Dakota tribes at Mille Lacs Lake and the markers previously placed by them there. In a nutshell the Dakota and Ojibwa were already in a war when the first French trader met the Ojibwa in the 1660 ref; Pierre Esprit de Radisson who left a written account at that time. The French traded with the Ojibwa and they were able to defeat the Dakota and pushed them off of Mille Lacs Lake to the south. The Dakota pushed the Iowa further to the south as well. Were the stories transferred from the Mendota at Mille Lacs to the Mendota in Minneapolis during this time and move?
So the situation now stood in the year 2001; the was road being built or already in place, the Bureau of Mines on Coldwater land was decommissioned and was now for sale. It was for sale from 1996 to 2008. The Bureau of Mines buildings could either be renovated or removed. But no credible offers were made to do so.
An Environmental Impact Statement and Ethnographic study was made for the site. The National Park Service consulted with over 10 Indian tribes.
The final Ethnographic Study on the Coldwater Spring, completed in 2006, found that even though no oral traditions or historical accounts were found to document onsite [Indian] cultural practices at Coldwater Spring that are over 50 years old (page 79) it nonetheless qualifies as a Traditional Cultural Property (TCP) because it is representative of the type of natural springs that figure significantly in Dakota traditional practices in general. Due to the past laws the prevented some traditional practices prior to 1978, the removal of Dakota Indians after the 1862 war, and the then lack of knowledge of the multiple other springs the same distance and comparable size from the rivers confluence as Coldwater, this TCP designation was acceptable to the study authors, and the State Historic Preservation Office agreed.
The National Park Service though disagrees that a loose similarity to other springs actual uses, qualifies Coldwater Spring as a TCP under federal recognition; They would need more information specific to Coldwater Spring itself.
The National Park Service DOES however recognize the contemporary cultural significance to Coldwater Spring due to the actions from the Highway 55 reroute controversy. What people hold sacred is just that- No documentation is necessary. But with no historical basis beyond 1998, it is contemporary.
The current books and studies - some made by PhD authors such as Bruce White or Angela Wilson/Waziyatawin argue that the site should still qualify at a Traditional Cultural Property on historic grounds, not just contemporary ones, primarily based on oral testimony made after 1998 reroute plans that correct the historical "facts" of previous documents and testimony. The controversy of this aspect is not new though. Gideon Pond wrote of it in May 1851 in his newspaper, The Dakota Friend (click to see article), stating the creation story is at the head of the Rum River, near Mille Lacs Lake (see the citation at the end of the article about it being at the MN river- a possible transfer of the stories location). But White's book would cite only part of Pond's article above, specifically skipping the contradiction. Curtis Campbell is quoted though on differing stories, where one story isn't really above any other. "And there's no right or wrong among any of them".